Chipping help needed
 

Hello. I am a relative beginner and am just starting TGM. I am focusing on learning the swinging procedure first and intend to master chipping before moving on to stage 2 and full swings. I am willing to hit 10,000 chips in my back yard, but there is no point "grooving" a faulty procedure. Right now, I simply have no clue as to how to hit a swinger's chip.

Yoda, and other more experienced TGMers, I'd be very grateful if the swinging chip motion could be explained in layman's terms. I've done a search on this and have spent the last hour on it, but I'm still not sure. Yoda, I also watched your video with the young man, but I am not experienced enough to grasp the answers to my questions based on the side view camera angle of your demonstrated chip. I also can't tell if that was a hitting chip or a swinging chip. My questions are:

What exactly is the path followed by my hands, the clubshaft, etc.? Is this a straight back and straight forward motion, or should there be a small arc? Should I be using any pivot at all for a short chip just off the green? Where should the ball position be? How close together should my feet be? Should my stance be square or open? In more general terms, should a beginning swinger think of chips as a long putt with a lofted club, or a shorter version of a full swing? What would be a good swing thought for a beginning chipper?

Thank you all very much in advance for your help.

teach

Teach,

Go to the Basic Forum and watch Yoda's video on the Flying Wedges. Then go to the Movie forum and watch Yoda's video helping Vickie. You won't even need sound.

It's all there for you to see and hear. Get this and you'll chip and hit it better.

If you can get the concepts in your mellon and then execute you'll be a long way down the right road.

Good luck man!

B

Say What?
 

Well, Teach... all righty then!

I count eight actual questions and a couple of hundred more if we choose to meanander through hill and dale as we answer them.

Sounds like a video is in order. I'll do a short piece in Orlando this week that will supply the answers you need. Meanwhile...

Get your Hands ahead of the Ball and 'drag your wet mop' through Impact.

Re: Chipping help needed
 

Thank you Yoda and 12 piece bucket.

teach

And everybody else just take up the slack and chime in now!

I'm also unsure on the Swinging chip shot (Basic Motion). I seem to move the hands with the hands. Last time I tried I think it felt like I didn't have any accumulators to release. I Hit all these little shots now, but this is a dirty big gap in my understanding that I can do without. Looking forward to the video Yoda :)

Chips
 

With SHORT CHIPS, the stroke is so short that HITTING and SWINGING will LOOK very similar. Use a very narrow stance(six inches wide or so), square to slightly open with the feet. The whole left shoulder area will be in front of the ball.

To SWING-- The left arm is like a rope, so use a fairly light grip pressure. Sense the hands going back, up, and in, then down , out, and forward to the ball. Have a dragging, lagging sensation. Only use enough force so that you can comfortably finish with both arms straight, and the clubhead still below your hands, as in the pictures of Vicki(when she got it).

To HIT-- The left arm is like an AX. Use a little tighter grip. Put the right elbow in more of a Punch position(slightly out) to set up the punching(pushing) motion of the right arm.

The RIGHT ARM IS ACTIVE WITH THE HIT, MORE PASSIVE WITH THE SWING.

My ideas in bold.
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Another note...

I am also a Swinger teach.....and personally, I have had success with "erring" (if it is to 'err') to the longer (and smoother) side of the stroke length spectrum.

Whenever I'm chipping badly, I find it's usually because I get hurried and "choppy," if you know what I mean. I like to be a little longer (if anything) in stroke length to allow the club to Swing (...Swing!....).

Vary distance with Lag Pressure.

Good luck teach.

Ask more questions if you have them.

Smooth Transition
 

Teach,

I am a TGM novice so any TGM references presented in this post are highly suspect, but here is what I do (some of this is based on instruction received at the recent SoCal school).

Assemble your flying wedges before addressing the ball. Step in to address with your right foot with your right big toe slightly behind the ball. Your right foot should be open to the plane line by maybe 10 to 30 degrees. Your wedges should still be intact with the ball slightly towards the toe of the club (~1/4" or so). Bring your left foot up parrallel to your right with a gap of 6" to a foot. You should now have your stance.

Your stroke should follow what Yoda is going to provide in the video. One tip that helps me (whether swinging or hitting) is to have a smooth transition as I started down. The chipping motion (Basic Motion) is so short that getting jerky is easier than being smooth. Take the club back a little further to quell the feelings of acceleration anxiety and concentrate on a smooth transition while maintaining lag pressure. Your impact will be all the better for it. Consistent chipping is all about precision impact which drives trajectory and distance control.

Why ask for disaster?
 

Why would one EVER swing a true chip shot? Under the gun, it's much easier and more predictable to "hit" the short shots! You can hit with any hinge motion/action. Learn to straighten the right arm while maintaining a bent and level right wrist.

EC

Oops, is this hitting or swinging, I don't really sure but it works for me:

Left arm very relax, bring the club back 2 inches or more with the right arm folding, then back to the ball. #3 to sense distance. Control all on right arm

According to lagster, this is:

Hitting? since using right arm but I don't have any pushing motion, more a pitch position at address too.

Swinging? since left arm like a rope, but my motion with all control by the right arm and motion by the right arm.

So is this swinging or hitting?

Re: Chipping help needed
 

Once again, I very much appreciate all of the responses.

EC, my thinking about swinging on my chips is that I am viewing this as the first step in building my full swing. Since I have chosen to be a swinger, I thought it best to start chipping that way as well so that I can develop a consistent feel..Right now, I'm having enough trouble learning one procedure.:) Hopefully, at some point I will feel comfortable enough to mix and match. I have read all of the archived posts on chipping, and have seen some excellent suggestions on "hitting" chips.

Does my thought process make sense to you? I most definitely value your knowledge and opinions, so if you think I'm all wet,please let me know. Thank you.

teach

P.S.- Today I re- watched the sections on chipping on Ben Doyle's tape and Chuck Evans' DVD. What a difference in approach! Ben clearly uses a normal ball position and a body pivot when demonstrating chipping. Chuck advocates ball position at the rear foot and no pivot. Choices!:) I eagerly await Yoda's video (and Brian Manzella's "Confessions of a Former Flipper", which hopefully will arrive tomorrow).

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Sounds like some form of HITTING, but this could be an example of the old "feel vs. real" situation. If you comply with the Essentials and Imperatives, and you are good with this procedure... it should be OK. There are probably endless "X" short game procedures.

It would seem to me that if the ball was played off the back foot one would could hit a "low runner" quite easily but would have difficulty hitting a high soft shot.

I'd say a true beginner may have an easier time making solid contact with the ball back but in the long run to become efficient with all sorts of shots the ball must be moved forward at some point.

Would be interesting to hear everbodies comments on the different ball locations (for chipping).


Thanks in advance

"It would seem to me that if the ball was played off the back foot one would could hit a "low runner" quite easily but would have difficulty hitting a high soft shot."

Learn to chip with all of your clubs. If you want a higher shot, use a club with more loft. I play the ball in the back of my stance and use almost all of my clubs depending on how much I want it to run.

Left arm lever
 

Imaging the left arm and club as a lever for chip shots. By playing the ball further back in your stance you're delofting the club and as you move it forward in your stance you're adding loft. This is really the first stage in TGM, 2 feet back and through. Good luck.

Very basics
 

Teach,

I just helped a beginner yesterday with the same issue. He hit a chip from about 3 yards off the green with a PW. He kind of fluffed it and muttered, "I should have used an 8 iron".

What I showed him was it wasn't his club choice but rather his procedure. Here are some things to start with:

1. Keep your left wrist flat throughout the entire stroke.

2. Ensure your hands are ahead of the ball at set up, impact, and behond impact.

3. Club selection is a matter of personal preference I think. But for basic chipping, I like to pick a club that will get the ball on the green and rolling as soon as possible. If I don't have to carry a lot of trouble (sprinkler heads, nasty rough, etc) and I have a lot of green to work with, I'll take a lower lofted club and just get it rolling quickly. If I have to carry it more, I'll go with the SW.

Re: very basics
 

Trig,

Thanks for your response. Do you teach a swinging or hitting procedure for these basic chips? Thanks.

teach

right wrist bend seems to work better
 

I almost always start with thr right wrist frozen position through impact and beyond with a dragging a wet mop feeling In fact I sometimes ask them to place the clubhead a foot or so behind the ball and drag the club along the turf to get them that feeling. Sometimes find that the left wrist flat feeling tends the student to arch the left wrist and zero out accumalator #3 with losening out the last three fingers of the left hand. Lots of ways to get it into their coconuts but I guess each individual has his own perception of embibng.

Vik