Hitters clubface at top
 

There are a few local professionals that are coming to me for TGM based instruction. I've found a common thread of misconception with them and with others that are trying to hit.

Depending on the use of 10-5-A versus 10-5-E, the look of the clubface at top can be different. Angled hinging is the "feel" of no roll. But, hitters still have turn and roll. Understand that the geometry of a hitter and swinger at top are the same. This should give you a different perspective when looking at the clubface. A swinger continues to End to load the pressure on the top of the shaft, where the hitter stops at Top (right shoulder high and on plane) to load the pressure on the back of the shaft. In all cases, the left palm will lay flat to the plane at top for both. Additionally, the right forearm flying wedge will support the loading. As a result, the leading edge of the clubface will be parallel to the baseline of the selected plane (10-5-A or 10-5-E). Can a hitter look slightly more closed at top than a swinger? If the clubface was in an open alignment to prepare for horizontal hinging (swinging) or closed to prepare for angled hinging (hitting), there should be a slight difference at top.

The hitter will have a very gradual turn from start up to top and will have a very gradual roll from start down to follow through (no roll feel). Angled hinging is caused by the drive out of the right arm. The difference is that a swinger lays his left palm on plane in start up, using a start up swivel. This difference is the preparation for the release swivel, which will be the mirror of the start up swivel.

Moral of the story: Don’t mistake a clubface that looks slightly closed at top as the result of no turn. It’s the product of the clubface alignment at address and can be affected by the chosen plane.

Please explain the look of the clubface at top in these fine pics: www.lynnblakegolf.com/assets/dartfish/TedWedge/PerformanceAnalysis.html
I thought angled hinging was half turn (22.5*) to the plane (horisontal is 45* turn to the plane=left palm flat on plane). Therefore the shaft looks to be steeper and clubface looks closed at the top. But this might be the misconception you're talking about. Please explain again.

Newbie
 

Would starting a swing stroke from impact fix promote angled hinging and therefore a fade? I am reasonbly new to TGM (but feel I am making good progress) and have found it easier to program my impact alignments by starting the backswing from impact fix. Could this be causing my unexpected fade? Should I move to a 10-9-A and 10-18-A to promote a horizontal hinge for swinging?

I would like to thank everybody (especially Yoda) for helping to 'pad out' the Little Yellow Book. It is great to know that my search has ended but my quest has only just begun....

Angled hinging
 

I was using 10-5-E when those pics were taken, and I was starting with a closed clubface alignment to nullify the fade tendency of angled hinging.
I do like to fade the ball, as my previous instruction had me hooking it so bad the ball would travel in a circle. ;) So there are times that I'll go back to 10-5-A, and I'll start with a clubface that's square (a fade is my friend in competition). My clubface at top is very different than in the pics and looks more square to plane.
I'll answer the next question, before you ask...(Why do you switch between 10-5-A and 10-5-E?) 10-5-E gives me the feeling of down and out which equals huge beaver pelts (divots). 10-5-A is the comfortable feeling of the baseline of my plane continuing toward my target.
As far as the turning of the hand, hitters and swingers will turn the palm to plane, with some sooner than others. Homer said swingers should do it as quickly as possible in start-up. The hitter might not accomplish this until top. The hand gets there for two different reasons. The swinger accomplishes it in the start-up swivel, where the hitter gradually gets there by pulling the left arm to top with no swivel. These start-up alignments have an effect on the position of the right elbow, which leads to a deeper discussion about the bad picture in the book about the pitch stroke.

Impact fix
 

Starting at impact fix gives you structure and rigidity. When I found in the book where Homer said it was useful for hitting, I put it in my pattern. I wouldn't recommend it for swinging, beacause you won't be in a position to drag the club back. You'll be in a position to carry it back. The drive out of the right arm is what causes angled hinging, not setting up in impact alignments. We all welcome you to the quest. The mysteries will all vanish, and you can end your subscription to Golf Digest and stop ](*,)

Ted Fort's New Alignment Golf
 

Ted Fort has the heart of a Champion.

Nevertheless, despite his talent, drive and career-long pursuit of perfection, his Game eighteen months ago was a trainwreck. Putting it charitably, it just 'wasn't hap'nin'. Last week, he and I presented our three-day LBG Academy at the PGA of Southern California Golf Club. He would be the first to tell you that many of the principles presented there were first presented to him only eighteen months before.

The prior week, Ted finished solo second in a championship field of approximately sixty Georgia Section PGA Professionals. The following day, he shot 70 - two under par -- in a Pro-Am featuring many of the same professionals (but where low pro scores were not recorded). All of which is really 'more of the same': In a major Georgia Section PGA match play event three weeks after last summer's birth of Ted, III, Ted, Jr. -- who had been virtually AWOL from the golf course for weeks -- and his partner finished second.

Bottom Line:

Ted Fort is today playing a different Game. A Game based on Alignments, not Positions. A Game he teaches daily to his students.

And, in case you haven't noticed...

I am so very proud of him!

I have seen Ted,s action first hand and his ball striking is very impressive . The ball just never leaves the stick and you get the feeling that Ted is really thinking about and doing his best to hit it not just get it close.

Yoda: I understand that Ted was formerly a swinger . What was it about his action that made you feel that he was better suited to being a hitter?

Ted: How many shots a round do you feel you have improved by making your change to hitting.

why a hitter?
 

I'll answer both, if I may...
I decided to go to hitting because of the feel of angled hinging. I had been taught to swing with angled hinging, which was a disastrous combination. And the thought of a start-up swivel and release swivel made me :-&. Also, the idea of simultaneous release of the power package was interesting, when I had been taught that you had to "keep" clubhead lag. I now create lag.
I feel that my present pattern is about 6 to 8 shots better for me than the (so called) swinging that I was being taught. Hitting is not for the faint of heart, though. It takes conscious thought, on every shot, for the rest of your life. It's not like swinging, where you can place it on cruise control.
Thank God I met Lynn Blake. I'd still be switting!

What do you have to consciously think about Ted?

a hitter thinks
 

Since centrifugal force is not throwing the club out and straightening the right arm, drive out or the conscious straightening of the right arm is always the thought.

[quote=YodasLuke]I'll answer both, if I may...
I decided to go to hitting because of the feel of angled hinging. I had been taught to swing with angled hinging, which was a disastrous combination. And the thought of a start-up swivel and release swivel made me :-&. [quote]

Hi Ted...

Just curious...

Do you feel your improvement is due to hitting being more compatible with angled hinging (perhaps your feel preference) or due to your overall motion - meaning, its not necessarily the angled hinging piece, but just that hitting fits you better.

I ask because sometimes I feel Homer spoke in absolutes and of course perfection in alignments - which I am all for. However, I personally feel people shouldnt get too carried away on alot of the components (I'm in trouble now!)...and should always allow for psychological preferences.

There are a ton of swingers on tour using angled hinging. Just curious as to your thoughts on why the change has worked so well for you.

Thanks.

I'm one of the culprits. My own misinterpretation of Angled Hinging along with watching Ted's hitting video on this web site led me to believe the club face should appeared closed at Top for a hitter. This led to some disastorous ball striking. However once Ted explained right forearm pick up on the backswing and angled hinging through the ball, my ball striking has improved immensley.

This just proves TGM is great, but man it get's a lot easier when you work on YOUR hit (or swing) with a knowledgeable teacher.

Thanks again Ted.

Sorting throught the Circuit Player's Handbook.

B-Ray

yikes...this reply sure sounds like my present situation...i hit alot of high fades these days, AH for sure in a long long swinging procedure. your reply about the swivels and stuff has hit home a bit here in canada...i am also very interested in your statement about 'dont keep, create the lag' i would love if fo you to expand on that thought. thanks

The appeal of hitting
 

[quote=phillygolf][quote=YodasLuke]I'll answer both, if I may...
I decided to go to hitting because of the feel of angled hinging. I had been taught to swing with angled hinging, which was a disastrous combination. And the thought of a start-up swivel and release swivel made me :-&. In my own game, I wanted structure, minimal body participation, and to be "so darn accurate", as Homer said. I knew in my heart of hearts that all of this turn, turn, turn crap had something that was not right. I just didn't know what it was until Yoda explained TGM to me. I was being taught pivot controlled hands, and I felt like a spaz. As a result, I was tracing the arc of approach (not recommended). It really saddens me that there are so many instructors out there that teach band-aid after band-aid with no regard to root causes of problems. TGM's just "too complicated." To that, Homer said, "making golf instruction simple makes it incomplete."
As far as the Tour, I think that there are many out there that are great in spite of instruction. Many use Hogan as a model in teaching, and instead of teaching alignments, they try to mimic his motion. That's fine as long as you know his history. Many say that Hogan was able to hook a SW 50 yards. He hated the fact that he hooked it so far. For numerous reasons (grip being paramount), he had a natural hook that wouldn't quit. Everything he did in his motion was designed to keep the ball from hooking. So, if a player comes to you that slices the ball off the planet, do you sit him down and teach him Hogan's Five Lessons? I've worked with hundreds of juniors and I've seen the evolution of students under many other instructors. Most start with a slice, the better kids learn eventually how to hook it. Then, they spend the rest of their lives trying to keep it from hooking (swinging with angled hinging.) Additionally, swinging is the only thing being taught in modern instruction. Hitting became a lost art when Homer died. It's our blessing that Yoda came back to the golfing world, and BOLDLY said, "there are TWO patterns." He's such a non-conformist. ;)
The way that I built my pattern was by taking everything that was moving and made it stop. I first took the pivot completely out. I kept my head stationary. I made my left wrist stay flat in a basic motion. And, began with a one accumulator stroke (#1). As far as the changing of components, change one at a time and make it yours. Trying to change multiple components will be anyone's downfall.

proud papa
 

There are always those students on which I hope the world does not judge my teaching. (The guy that you wonder how he gets dressed in the morning without hurting himself or someone else.) Of those, you ARE NOT one. I'm very proud of your progress, and I know there aren't many that want the knowledge more than you. Not only will you become one of the best teachers in the world, you'll also be able to demostrate the patterns. They'll say, "he talks the talk and walks the walk." For that reason, I'll feel like a proud papa for helping you along the journey.

keep vs. create
 

When people say 'keep', it leads to the keeping of the power accumulators. We call it accumulator lag (not good). The question is: How does the clubhead stay behind the hands? The simple answer is: The grip has to have greater pressure placed against it than that of the clubhead's momentum. You don't 'sustain the lag' by keeping the clubhead from passing your hands. You keep pressure in the pressure points of the hands that is greater than that of the energy of the forward moving clubhead.
When I stopped trying to keep the clubhead behind everything and started trying to keep the grip in front of everything, my game changed forever.

[quote=YodasLuke][quote=phillygolf]This post is as strong as train smoke!

Ted,

Good explanations and info!

Lee Deitrick (ldeit)

First Things First
 

And in the Stroke Patterns, 12-1-0 is Hitting and 12-2-0 is Swinging.

This does not mean that Hitting is better than Swinging. It does mean that Hitting is a bonafide way of moving a Golf Club through Impact. And almost everybody starts off that way: Hitting the Ball with the Right Arm. And that is why TGM was originally presented as a Right Arm-based System.

Over time, Homer Kelley came to see the distinct differences between Left Arm Centrifugal Throw-Out Action and Right Arm Muscular Drive-Out Action. Body Momentum Transfer into Left Arm Pull or Right Triceps Drive into Right Arm Push.

Do one.

Or the other.

But not both...

At least not at the same time.

Forever In Front
 

Now that's good.

Really good.

In rereading this post the above quote cleared the fog for me. I never understood what the advantage was for the hitter stopping at Top instead of side or end, but now I definetly do. When stopping at Top the shaft is completely loaded on the back. At side it is not fully loaded, and at end it is loaded on top of the shaft.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

The young Jedi
 

As Yoda would say...
Young he is, but strong is the force... :)

The two patterns coming together to a "T"

Hall of Fame Ted! This place is just too much fun ;)

Kool-aid drinkers anonymous
 

Since my wife is a licensed counselor who specializes in the sisterhood of G.O.L.F. widows and she's been watching me respond to all these posts, she wanted to offer her services to all the widows of the Kool-aid drinkers. She said she can attend any of our future G.O.L.F. schools to help the ladies cope. Her code name is Princess Leia. She'll be attending all of the schools in exotic locations. ;)

When I stopped trying to keep the clubhead behind everything and started trying to keep the grip in front of everything, my game changed forever.[/quote]

Ted, could you further expand on this quote, I have been concentrating on dragging the clubhead through impact. Should my focus be more on the grip end??

Keeping versus creating lag
 

Ted, could you further expand on this quote, I have been concentrating on dragging the clubhead through impact. Should my focus be more on the grip end??[/quote]

I was under the impression for a long time that I had to 'keep' the clubhead from passing my hands. It made me 'keep' my right arm bent (accumulator lag) too long. I always felt the need to hold everything back. The epiphany came when I realized that the clubhead didn't want to go forward (law of inertia). Everyone had always told me about "clubhead" lag, but I heard new terminology: lag "pressure". I realized that PRESSURE against the handle being greater than that of the momentum of the clubhead would keep the handle winning the race to the ball.
Pulling with centripetal force or pushing with muscular drive can create lag pressure. Because hitters load the pressure on the back of the shaft at top, we have the luxury of carrying that lag pressure (felt in the #3 pressure point) from top through impact. The swinger, on the other hand, loads the pressure on top of the shaft. When using a snap release, the #3 pressure point rotates very late to a position that's behind the shaft.
Other terminology that I hate to hear is "clubhead speed." I'd rather be able to measure someone's "hand speed."

Aren't the hands actually moving slower than the clubhead though because they are gradually rotating as they move into impact and through to the follow through postion.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the hands travel a much shorter distance than the clubhead from the parallel to the base line on the downswing(Mac's P5) position through follow through.

That being said hand speed would be considerably slower than clubhead speed. Correct???

So well it may be easier to measure clubhead speed, the hitter should work on increasing hand speed.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

Hand speed is dependent on release type, the earlier the release the higher hand speed needed to produce the yardage equivalent to that of a short quick arc of the maxixmum delay per Mr. Kelley.
Tom Watson with his sweep release has much more handspeed than Ben Hogan with his snap release.
Rather than clubhead speed or hand speed shouldn't the focus be on ball speed, resistance to the deceleration of impact?


todd

Yo Todd,

Sounds like you're a proponent of sustaining the line of compression! Man, you'd better call Philly and thank him for that "gift" Monday night. My Cats will let your Boys know whose for real Christmas Eve!

Don't be a stranger,

EC

resisting deceleration
 

"resistance to the deceleration of impact"...a primary concern of the hitter. As we are in the Emergency Room for Hitters, snap releases are TABOO! ;) No maximum delay for me. Horizontal hinging would give me the heebie jeebies. :cool:

In the case of hitting isn't the primary hand speed generated by the driving of the right foream and shoulder as hard as you can through the ball using the proper hand positions.Similar to the blow I would use in hitting a punching bag.

Dave

Concentric circles
 

When hitting, we don't have the luxury that those outcasts in the other emergency room have. Since they don't have the brute force that we hitters have, :-({|= they have to use a small pulley wheel to accelerate the club (snap release) or have faster hand speed and a larger pulley wheel. A hitter has to resist deceleration. We are driving the entire primary lever system by unloading the secondary lever system.
Even a hitter has some #3, and some #2 which are being simultaneously released, so yes the hands are going slower. But, most poor players have the false feel of clubhead speed and slow the hands to increase the speed of the clubhead. (bent left wrist = shorter primary lever, less mass, faster clubhead but less kinetic energy) The feel of faster hands has to be conveyed if someone's trying to hit or the feeling of pushing the middle (handle/grip) of the primary lever system forward, or hitting will be out of the question.
The snap release in swinging will always be mistaken for wrist bend by the masses.

tricep power
 

The right triceps drive when hitting. However, the shoulder will move down plane, but it becomes a backstop from which the right arm can jump.

So why shouldn't/can't (whichever it is) a Hitter use a Snap Release Ted?

This is interesting.

Does it apply only for Hitting...or just Angled Hinges of any kind? or Single Wrist Action?

We need more Mr. Skywalker!

!

;)

-Paul

Mixing and matching components
 

Some would say that Homer never wanted to be pinned down about saying what could and could not happen. He wanted to keep the versatility and to keep the book universally applicable. For those reasons, I don't fault him. I think I can speak for myself and Yoda with regard to this topic. Homer did list two distinct patterns: 12-1 and 12-2. Whether you want to call it a method or a system, I could care less. The fact is: THIS STUFF WORKS!!! These patterns do have some interchangeable parts. But, in the component catalogue, you find components that are different for hitting versus swinging. If I assume that Homer was an incredibly gifted man (which I do), I also have to assume that he had his reasons for inclusion and exclusion of components in the two (recommended) patterns.
The pitch stroke for example, which arguably has the worst picture in the book representing the stroke, fits swinging and not hitting. The reason that the elbow is closer to the ball during release is not because you're trying to drive your elbow as deep into impact as possible (it's being taught because of the picture). But, it's because the flying wedges remain in tact and the left palm remains on plane for uncocking and rolling in snap release. If the right forearm flying wedge supports the aft side of the primary lever, the elbow has to be in a more forward position (pitch) when using a snap release. You've prepared from the top (end) for delivery line uncocking, and for delivery line roll. By going to end, you've loaded the pressure on top of the shaft, not on the aft side for hitting. It was the understanding of the interrelationships of the components that opened my eyes to Homer's genius. Is that as clear as mud?

I think I get most of it. Had to read a few times but I think I get the jist.

I think I can basically understand why by trying Standard Wrist Action/Pitch vs. Single/Punch (just did a few slow-motion Down Strokes).....and for both, holding the Release off until as late as I can....

It starts to feel uncomfortable much earler with the Single/Punch combo.

-Paul

[quote=YodasLuke][quote=phillygolf]Ted, I've recently begun a conversion to hitting myself, after trying the technique with chipping and finding success I never imagined possible (I think hitting may just be a better "fit" for me because good contact seemed to come so much more naturally and with much less effort (physical and mental) than a couple of years of swinging did). I'm looking forward to the journey.

I feel like I'm at the point you describe in your quote above... I've become real comfortable with the short basic motion you describe above and even been able to extend a bit further back to hit low iron shots out of trouble. What are your recommendations for taking the next step in developing my hitting stroke? I'm conscious of the difficulty with (and my temptation to) changing too many components at once and after reading this thought I'd pick your brain regarding what aspects of the hit I should work on after getting a handle on the basic motion (also, the role of the wrist cock in the hitting stroke is not entirely clear to me so). Thanks!

The next step
 

[quote=tls2351][quote=YodasLuke]I'll tell you something that always helps me return to great ball striking. Sometimes I don't play golf or practice for 7 or more days. I have a five month old that takes a lot of time, but I wouldn't trade that time for anything.
The thing that gets me back on track immediately is going to total motion (stopping at top) and taking about five seconds to execute the stroke. It's the epitome of DELIBERATE (3-F-6). Going at that speed, you can monitor everything. Also, it gives you a great feel for release. I try to make the downstroke last as long as possible, but still hit the ball with some force. The shorter you want to hit it, the lighter the club feels. The longer you want to hit it, the heavier it feels. You'll get to where you can hit a total motion, 20 yard floater. Keep making it bigger until you have the distance you want. Over acceleration is the killer.
As far as wrist cock goes, 7-3 says "Bending and Straightening of the Right Elbow will RAISE AND LOWER the Left Arm and/or COCK AND UNCOCK the Left Wrist, without Bending, Flattening, or Cocking the right wrist." The amount of wrist cock that you need will occur if the right arm bends and the right wrist doesn't cock. As a hitter, we have the luxury of simultaneous release, all of which occurs from the proper use of the right elbow. Don't sweat wrist cock.

Luke,

In your opinion is the Snap Release the Swinger's exclusive domain? Also, do you think the Snap Release is better suited to Horizontal Hinge Action?

You have posted some SUPADOOPA stuff on lag PRESSURE (I will never separate these words again!). I have been an unsuspecting casualty caught in the friendly fire of "accumulator lag" and "holding angles." I have a tendency to hold-on for dear life with the #2 Accumlator and am also a chicken to let the #3 Accumulator "do it's thang."

Do you have a distinct feel of #3 Swivel after the Angled Hinge Motion is executed?

I'm with you. I don't get how people could say that's a "Golfing Machine Swing" or that it's a method. They must have skipped Chapter 10. It's ALL in there . . . I mean every last bit.

Thanks!

B

Snap release/swivel
 

1st 2 questions:Yes and yes. It's a big deal that the pressure for the swinger is loaded on the top of the shaft and the pressure for the hitter is loaded on the back of the shaft. In swinging the feel of the #3 pressure point is so different than what I feel in hitting. It gets to the same place at impact, but it rotates from top to aft very quickly. I have the feeling of the aft side support all the way from the top. That's why I find it so outrageous when people claim to jump back and forth between hitting and swinging when playing a round of golf. In other words, what they're claiming is that they have the ability to change ten components from swing to swing with no mulligan. And I thought that I had a lot of thinking to do.

The #3 pressure point for me feels like a constant and deliberate rotation from the top. As it slowly turned to the top, it also slowly rolls in the downstroke. The swivel strictly involves the forearm, where the hinge action is the total arm (my words). As far as the swivel, I do have a finish swivel that has it's distinct feel AFTER impact. Holding on for dear life is not the feel of angled hinging, although it's the way I was previously taught. It's the bridge to the finish for hitting and swinging.

Are you presently swinging or hitting?