New to Daryl? :laughing9

It's obvious that you can't add to the Pot. Keep stirring.

I don't care much which way he Shaft Leans, that's a matter of the Right Forearm Flying Wedge and the Angle of Approach. But Clubhead Lag technique should be important to everyone and so it should be learned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grPpp...ayer_embedded#!

Clubhead maintaining it's lag through the impact interval is your statement, it's incorrect period, you need to re-educate yourself on what is really going on in the swing as it's obvious you have no clue.:laughing9 :laughing9 :laughing9

Questions
 

Wedgy, what is there about your posts that would lead anyone to believe you are well-intentioned.? You make a point or two and then insult and deride Daryl. There is a ton of evidence that Daryl has forgotten more about the golf swing than you or I know.

Let's just say, and I'm pretending here, that Daryl is wrong and you are right. Who are you going to convince by being mean-spirited? If you are convinced you are correct, why not try to help us all see it with a thoughtful presentation.

Maybe you, OB, and Daryl are all correct but using different terms and seeing things from different perspectives.

What makes you think you have the weight to slam another human being?

Now, people get short tempered as we all know, including me, and including Daryl. But responding with the same mistake helps nothing. :(

That's it for you! I want you to apologize to Daryl and shake hands in a mature fashion. OB, you are to be punished by watching the press conference announcement that Roy Halliday was traded to the Philadelphia Phillies by the Toronto Blue Jays. Daryl, your punishment is to watch replays of Jay Cutler mope around the sideline, yesterday, and that fool interfere with the foul ball that cost the Cubs a trip to the Series.

Wedgie, I don't know anything about you, yet, but we will be gathering data with which to hurt your feelings, slowly. I think we can start by having you read all my posts! :)

ICT

A lagging discussion
 

Lessee - Yoda has asked to keep it civil, others would like to keep it civil.

I'll ask Daryl and Wedgie as well. If ya can't, I guess you'll have to put each other on ignore. But it would be nice to have you participate.

Differing opinions are welcome, but we have to change the tone. Internet communications are one of the worst. I think tin cans and strings would be more effective. Its impossible to know the "attitude" behind posts. It's why we have the smiley guys.

Carry on.:)
BTW, check out the lag and shaft bend on my smiley golf guy.:golf:

If you go back and read the posts it was Daryl who insulted me first by calling me an idiot and a dweeb etc. so i responded in kind i will defend myself from uncalled for insults, instead of discussing this statement of his and explaining with credible proof or providing his reason in this belief he just attacked with insults, hardly a way to treat another human being wouldn't you agree, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I lightened my response up, Wedge.
 

The dog had to go out and took 30 minutes to do her business. I meant to put the funnier stuff in but got side-tracked. Don't get upset. I think you'll find my edit funnier. Good luck! :)

ICT

Daryl brings up a good question. Namely, how do we regard this quote below in the light of Lynn's story about Homer discussing the forward bending shaft seen in Release.

And what about the Drag Loader who Rotates his Lag Pressure Point (knuckle to first joint) what are the implications to shaft bend? Two different bends , one for longitudinal (knuckle) one for radial (first joint)? That'd make sense. Does constant lag pressure really mean constant bend, no kick?

A Drive Loader who accelerates Radially would only bend it one way ,not including toe down, maybe?

I'm over it, and all the best to you.

I'm on board :salut: and that smiley guy is out of control does he ever get tired...lol.

What about 6-c-2-c

"The prestressed Clubshaft will resist the weight of the ball during impact, instead of cushioning the impact with an unstressed clubshaft".

If he is referring to the Hogan type inward shaft lean, that is a peculiar way to phrase it.

On the other hand, the lag pressure remains throughout the swing, indicating it is present even when the club ultimately passes the hands and ,therefore, through the various shaft flex points. And 7-11, states clubhead lag deals exclusively with sweet spot plane. So, lag pressure and shaft flex are different animals.

To my untrained eye it is a little fuzzy.

I think the cushioning is probably was happens most of the time. Have you ever hit a drive flush and had the sensation that the ball stayed on the face a little longer than usual? I think that sensation might be a result of the forward stressed shaft hitting the ball and bending the shaft back into a lagging clubhead orientation.

It might also be possible for an extremely strong individual to load the shaft in such a way with a particular acceleration profile so that the shaft never bends toward the target before impact.

There is some great information here in this thread - Don't miss that Wedgy. Those of us that believe in lag have a reason. We have seen it, we feel it and we know it works. Whether or not the shaft deflects in that fashion is probably not a helpful fact to hitting a golf ball. Now I would like the forums opinion as to whether swingin a club head on a rope would produce a similar deflection or swinging a "Whippy" club. I would have a hard time believing my "whippy" club shaft deflects in that manner......and I don't care. Now looking at the ball "line of sight" does the club head or hands get to the ball first? Wedgy are you saying the clubhead get ahead of the hands and arrives simultanously or head of the ball. Does the clubhead move ahead and then bet behind in the milliseconds before impact. Wedgy consider how many successful strikers of the ball believe in lag. it is a priniciple right or wrong that works - just like TGM literalism works for me. Just as science can interfere with treating patients I feel it can interfere with understanding and performing good golf swings

The physics of the bends is beyond me but I do know that Lynn has mentioned the toe down bend of the clubhead on a rope. That CF wants to align the Sweetspot to the #3pp as seen below in a Homer demonstration. With a more rigid shaft , this tendency bends the shaft and toe down, such are the forces in play.

Note the natural Horizontal Hinging of this True Swinging procedure too. You can not manipulate the face when the shaft is a rope.

my opinion....
 

The ball on the rope deal would show the same deflection eventually if a part of it had to slow to transfer momentum the way our bodies,arms, hands, sequentially do in a golf swing. If we could do the superman spin, maybe it wouldn't, but we are on our way to a finish and the ball/rope isn't. (Well until you decide this is the last spin :laughing9 )

Wedgy's right that the shaft defects the clubhead forward, which is useful to know for theory or club fitting, etc. However, for golfers and teachers, we better just keep sensing lag pressure point pressure. Ive seen enough videos of clubheads flying forward :( , so to that I'm with you David.

Maybe beating a dead horse beyond Yoda's post (#113 I think)

(A fitting signature......."try" to bend it)

I agree that knowing shaft deflection is great for clubmakers. When I was making clubs, because I was left handed and needed a test set, I must admit that I had 26 drivers in my garage less than three years old !! I had a frequency machine and deflection board. Years ago I was hitting my Calloway 7 wood so sweet. I went to the clubmaker at Martin's in Myrtle Beach. I asked if he could make a driver to frequency match it. He fiddled around with his components and said he didn't have what he needed in left handed. Then He had me hit my driver. I had just finished playing and was stiff and 95 mph was my best. He took my driver and swung left handed 120mph. Then He told me I didn't need a new driver but LESSONS ! I was pissed. Concepts like the shaft bending down and deflecting foward I think are best put in the recesses of your brain and forgotten. I have enough trouble with the foward leaning shaft and its illusions.

I agree that this knowledge is not of much use on the golf course. I think it's value is mostly in knowing that if you had a shaft with a lot of flex, you could end up hitting hooks even though you delivered the grip end of the club square, due to the closing that happens with the forward deflection.

The pictures we see always are of professionals. Id like to see a side by side comparison of the typical clubhead throw away amatuer vs. the touring pro as far as the actions of the shaft goes.

I like JTillery's signature........"dont just lean it , bend it".

With the clubhead in the dirt the shaft bends the other way again and pressures the #3pp at the right index finger , radial acceleration, bending along the fore and aft of the shaft axis. Thats what Yoda looks like he's up to in the photo of him in question to my mind. That and the Hands ahead of the ball and Head, well and a bunch of other stuff...Both Arms Straight at Follow Through etc.

Hogan had a ton of lag pressure coming out of his delayed snap release and he hit the ground even with his 4 wood. The pressure he felt in his #3pp at the index finger during all of this would have been immense. This could have/can feel like right hand thrust. Even Throwaway and Lag Pressure can be very similar in feel. Could lag pressure alone be the Three Right Hands thing? Its possible. When I hear really good golfers talking about their Right Hand doing something at the bottom , I always wonder about this possible explanation. It aint necessarily the only explanation but ......its one of them. And from Snap the Right Hand is doing something ......turning to level really quickly and taking the brunt of impact, stressing the Primary Lever via EA and Directing the Thrust too in our lexicon. But not actively unbending I dont think.

Im Random Sweep myself so its not my thing but any of you Snap Releasers want to comment on the three right hands of immense Lag Pressure? I think John Riegger said he adds a little something at the bottom with the right hand ...... Not saying it cant be done.

Cool impact photo

Anxious to see how he does this year. Looks VERY powerful!

Kevin

Just to be clear i'm not questioning the importance of proper impact alignments or lag pressure etc. give me some credit for been a little smarter than that, i only questioned Daryl's statement of a lagging clubhead through the impact interval, not that you should flip the club, throw the clubhead away, scoop, etc., etc., i even said as much in one of the first posts i made.

The clubshaft behaviour doesn't mean that you should change your method or what you believe in, if it works for you to try and keep the clubhead lagging through the impact interval, great, but all i was saying was in reality the clubhead doesn't do that,it goes into a leading position at that time point, that's it and therefore Daryl's statement is not correct. He got all defensive and started to attack me, so the whole thing got off track, it was interesting though. I'm done on this now as it has been beaten to a pulp.

Actually, what I saw in your first post was you coming into Lynn's house and questioning his knowledge. Based on that, it's hard for me to give you credit for being "smarter than that." I think we just have different ideas on how to conduct ones self. Sorry, just how I feel.

Kevin

Forgive my ignorance but who's in the pic?
Alex

Jamie Lovemark.

Lynn didn't have a problem with it, and what's wrong with questioning? how else can you learn what a person thinks or believes in and Lynn told me and i accepted his explanation and if you read those 2 posts they were civil. On the other hand Daryl was not.

Like I said wedgy, just my opinion. I'm always in the minority on this issue, but as long as you shot the message to me, I spoke my mind.

Kevin

Ya, i have no problem with that, as i spoke mine also.

Hasta La Vista Wedgy
 

As it turns out, wedgy aka footwedge aka some other ID is the same guy we've kicked off this plane before. :think: :BangHead: :thumbdown

Buh Bye.:thumleft:

There's a shock. :BangHead:

Good catch Bagger! :notworthy

Watch my banana lag that sucker! :golfing_banana: :thumleft:

Kevin

Green Thumb
 

Thanks go to Bambam - I'm just the janitor.

Now, how do we clean the weeds out of this garden?

Thanks to BamBam as well. Sometimes even the head dudes have to take out the garbage! :bounce:

Kevin

LOL - the kids are proud of the fact they have a "mole" on our forum. Imagine that, a "mole" on a public forum. I'm afraid next they're going to break into a local library and read a book. :-)

Kevin

I have set this illustration as my desktop background!

HA! Me too.....even if I can't get to that position I hope I'll get something by osmosis.

Same rap and a deserved rep
 

It's amazing the guy has not developed a new rap in the last six months! He must have a real uhmm, "attraction" to Daryl. Maybe he lost a putting contest to him at the club or something. :dontknow:


ICT

Yes, cool, but the clubhead is leading the shaft. Not quite the same as the most important pic.....

The other kids will be very proud of your post. Nice job!

Thank you Kevin, always something nice to say.

But, in my opinion, perhaps you guys are right, feel vs. real.

You can feel like you lean the shaft, but it ain't even close to what the shaft is actually doin.

Just be aware that a lot of photos will display forward shaft lean at impact that isn't real. Simply because the lower part of the picture is taken slighly later than the upper part...

I don't see why there should be as much forward shaft lean in that photo. In a wood, yes, due to clubhead COG way behind the hosel. But not in an iron.