Originally Posted by bambam

I don't like how you lay the club off early and then try to get it back on plane...I don't like it because it's one of my biggest problems :) Hitters don't need to swivel the club like that, just pick it up with your right arm and punch it w/ your stump. Looks like you could let that right elbow fly a little, too. Check out the down the line video of Ted in the gallery and compare your down the line view with his.

That looks like my backyard! Boilers? You still in Indiana?

Originally Posted by tgmnut

Where's Summitville?

Originally Posted by Mike O

TGM Nut,
Really too much too discuss- I'll just hit the high points of my analysis.

You my friend are an ATHLETE! With that body you can flat out KILL IT!

Of course, not to start some big debate but you are absolutely a swinger- with angled hinging (don't get caught up in that not worth it- anotherwords it just is- if you decide to make certain other changes in your movement then it will change)

If you are just trying to fix a forward sway by whatever method say keeping your head back- and everything stays the same - you'll never fix it! Personally, I look at the big picture and what's going on here? Power, Power, and more Power! How do you emphasize it? Body goes down and forward on the downswing- that sets up the power move- which is the second half of the downswing to impact- you Pull up, Pull up, Pull up! What do you pull up with - everything!- the more mass you can get involved the further the ball goes! The actual effort is more Pull up and make that club head move to the right to maximize the lagging clubhead, Pull up and keep fighting that clubhead lag by making it go straight to the target or out to the right! Hey, it's a great way to have a powerful swing. And even that clubface wanting to make that horizontal hinge motion via centrifugal force is an additional lag affector because you're fighting that also- creating more lag. You're a lag junkie. So Power wise you have no issues- however, accuracy is fleeting- certainly not as consistent day to day as you would like it- you either have it that day or you don't! And each new day is a mystery until you're three holes into the round and realize the pattern of consistency for that day - whether it's good or not.

So besides the "forward sway"- what else happens as a result of that general "move" that I described- or better said what other problems do you have as a result of your chosen method of applying power? Not much hip rotation accomplished at impact. Notice the lack of spine tilt as you straighten out of it. Also, notice the really high hands after impact and into the finish- a much more vertical plane. The Chicken wing left elbow after impact - somehow works with these issues. In addition, it's all about getting that power into the ball- afterwards the finish is just impact fallout and not a destination for you - as the club bounces off the back and down to your side.

So that's what I see- the big picture and then how all the little pictures tie into the same big picture. So the question is this - Can you let go of the power mind set over the short term- 2-4 years- as you develop a more sound and accurate game - one that will eventually have an opportunity to actually hit the ball further but in the short term will not allow you to hit it as far? Not an easy road to take- believe me I know! Probably comes down to how badly you want to be a lot better and what your willing to do to get better.

Personally I wouldn't start with the forward "sway"- it's too integral to your pattern - you need to make easier changes first - and then eventually you can attack the forward sway if it is there still and you feel that you want to change it.
The easier changes are:

1) Work on maintaining the spine angle through impact and into the finish- Sorry no more pulling up for power!,

2) Professional Pose your finish on each swing-
A) for consistency,
B) To check if you still have spine tilt- which means you had it through impact

You can infer more changes from my post above - not so important which one you do- The question is which ones can you do and still hit the ball fairly well- while you are making the change?

How do I know all that- because I've done all those swings myself by experimenting at one time or another.

Said you wanted feedback- that's mine- good luck with the game.

P.S. it goes without saying that you need to go full out with all your shots including the short irons- because if you don't you mess the pattern up- you don't have that heavy lag feel etc.- of course if you are doing that and not hitting them accurately- then your one course of action is to say "swing more in control" and that is where you need to head but that thought won't work well with your swing- you need to change the movement first. You may have in the past flipped flopped between full out short shots and efforts to swing the shorter irons "in control". Unfortunately, while that's what makes the driver your best club- great lag and fairways that are wide enough where you are not concerned about accuracy- which usually produces good accuracy, but if you get a narrow fairway or have a short iron into the green and think about accuracy for one minute - you're dead! Lag junkies don't usually do well with accuracy thoughts!

Finally, I realize that I'm guessing so i could be completely wrong on all accounts- so if anything helps great- if it is all junk then move on. But if you are able to make those changes then on every golf day- you'll be able to completely control your ball and not just wonder where it will go.

Originally Posted by tgmnut

I have new video up of my swing after 2 days of trying to eliminate my forward sway. Feedback please!!!

http://www.geocities.com/robmont64/swing2.html

Originally Posted by bambam

Great post, Mike. I wondered if he was swinging.

Straightening up for power is one of my tendencies, too. Do you have any good drills for working on a constant spine angle? I've been doing aquired motion and find when I start pulling up for power there's no way I can keep my hands and club from finish swiveling.



45 min to 1 hour almost straight east of you on 28; really close to James Dean's old home of fairmount. My brother-in-law is finishing up vet school at Purdue and my sister works in the IT department. I heard the Purdue courses are pretty nice; I've been meaning to get over there and play a round w/ my brother-in-law.

Originally Posted by tgmnut

Okay Yoda,

Mike O stated earlier that he thought I was swinging. I've been trying to learn hitting for a while, I used to swing. Any chance you could help me clear up whether I should swing or hit?

Originally Posted by Yoda

tgmnut,

There is a lot to like in your Total Motion. I am particularly impressed by your ability to maintain your Flat Left Wrist through Impact. Whether acquired through hard work or athletic birthright, it is the reason you play as well as you do.

As I see it, three major stumbling blocks stand between you and your potential. Here they are, along with my recommended cures...

1. The Start Up. Yours is a very 'Handsy' Full Sweep Action (10-22-A) that results in an exaggerated Left Wrist Turn and an Off Plane Clubshaft as you move into the Backstroke. You stated that you have experimented with both the Impact Address and the Standard Address and that you prefer the latter. I suggest you use it to its full advantage by using your Right Forearm -- not your Turning and Cocking Left Wrist -- to move the Clubshaft back along the Plane Line in Start Up. It will be easy because in Standard Address, your Right Forearm and Clubshaft are pointing at very nearly the same spot on the Plane Line. So, think of this initial move as a 'Flat Right Wrist' Takeaway. Practice this diligently with the Right Forearm and Club only. Drill: Position an Impact Bag behind your Right Foot and on the Arc of Approach. Then, hit it with the Club on the Backstroke using your Flat Right Wrist and Forearm to initiate, direct and sustain the action. Do this over and over until your Right Forearm assumes full control of your Start Up. This will put you well down the road to happy times. :)

2. The downward Bob. I am not nearly so concerned about what is being labeled the 'forward Sway' because you are merely returning to a Centered position. And Tiger has shown us that even the Bob is not exactly a fatal Snare if it is compensated. Nevertheless, your Head is moving way too much. As a result, your Pivot Center is unstable and Centered Arc is in jeopardy. Until you bring this element under control, you will always struggle for consistency. :confused1

3. The Looping Plane Shift. You begin your Stroke on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shift to the Turned Shoulder Plane. So far, so good. But then, at the Top, you Loop to the very steep Squared Shoulder Plane (10-7-F). All this requires a ton of compensation. The cure -- Pivot correction -- will also go a long way toward curing the above-mentioned Bob.

The first step is understanding exactly how the Pivot should work. Here I would reference the On Plane Shoulder Turn combination of 10-13-D. The student must learn to turn his Right Shoulder as Flat back to the Plane as he can -- you do a good job here -- and then to take the Shoulder directly Down Plane toward the Ball (and not back 'out' to where it came from, i.e., its Address position, which is what you do). And this requires the proper Hip Action -- Slide with a Delayed Turn -- to tilt the spine (the Shoulder Turn's Axis) and enable the Hands to take their desired Straight Line (10-23-A) or Angled Line (10-23-B) Delivery Path to the Ball. So, as a first step, you must work on the Pivot Motion itself without the Arms and Club per Photos 9-1-1/12.

Once you have a crystal clear picture of how the Pivot should function and are able to do make that Motion without Arms and Club, you should immediately turn the control back over to the Hands. This is where the 'magic' will happen.

Without a Club, raise your Right Hand to the Top of your Stroke. Then, leaving the Hand turned palm-up to the Plane, bring the Right Forearm down in a 'karate chop' motion through your line-of-sight to the ball. You will find that the Right Shoulder will cooperate beautifully to enable and suppport that Motion. In fact, it would be quite foreign for the Shoulder to go 'out' and still make the Forearm motion I've described.

Not only will this better keep the Clubshaft On Plane, it will also promote Maximum Trigger Delay of the #3 Accumulator. And that means Maximum Distance. Because of the nature of Right Elbow Participation, Swingers will be able to delay that Release a bit longer than Hitters, but with practice, even Hitters can learn to get that Right Elbow 'past the Ball' before Triggering.

:occasion:

From the Top, you will want to Feel the Pivot's Pull of the Arms and Club -- practice Start Down Waggles endlessly -- directly toward the Plane Line. Regarding what 'spot' to Pull toward from the Top, just Pull toward the Plane Line. Since you are always pulling the club lengthwise in the direction it is pointing, and since that direction is changing every split second, the specific point you are Pulling toward is likewise changing. So, just pull toward the Line, and you'll get the job done.

In summary, tgmnut, each of these three items are closely related. Learn to use your Tracing Right Forearm to stay On Plane in Start Up and to guide your Stroke to a Turned Shoulder Plane at the Top. Then, use the Magic of the Right Forearm to deliver the Club Down Plane into Impact on either the Turned Shoulder Plane (Single Shift / 10-7-B) -- probably your most 'comfortable' alternative at this point -- or on your original Elbow Plane (Double Shift / 10-7-C). This focus on Hand-Controlled-Pivot will train your Body to support -- not bully -- the Hands. Finally, work on keeping your Head Stationary. Your reward will be Centered Arc and a new level of consistency.