Per Homer,
"The Right Forearm indicates Plane Angle and must stay on Plane in the backstroke then down Plane either on "ARC" or "ANGLE" of Approach. The MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM dictates that the forearm traces the plane during the backstroke then traces the delivery line and visually parallel to the approach angle on the downstroke. There is also a "feel" of the right forearm "pick up" on the backstroke with extensor action. The Right Forearm cannot become on Plane until the Right Elbow becomes on Plane. The minute the right elbow gets off plane the forearm also leaves the plane. The left arm is almost useless except as accumulator #4 in pivot strokes. The release comes as the left arm leaves the chest.

Ball position is relative to the Plane and determines the actual Angle of Approach of the clubhead. Farther back for flatter, forward for upright. Ball position is also dependent on the design of the golf club and the individual. "

Yo can view your plane by setting a mirror to the rear. Use a dowel and the right foream pickup.

Lay something down on the ground as a straight plane line and then just trace it and "look look look" to make sure you're on plane.

To be honest, just trace the line going back and trace it coming down and look in a mirror and make sure your right forearm is on plane. Simple as that, thats what i do and i hit the ball pretty well :)

Remember!

"The Clubshaft always points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other" (1-L-6).

"Changing the Plane Angle has no effect on the Plane Line" 1-L-18.

Henning

rwh~

7-6 and 7-7 support your post, even acknowledging that it is not always advisable to adhere to a single inclined plane classification throughout the stroke. However, does not the "shift" bring with it the hazards Mr. Kelley cautions about and their consequences? And, is one of those consequences not satisfying the desirable shoulder/hand relationship in the downstroke of 7-13 as illustrated in the stroke clip? Or, is it satisfied?

DRW

Elbow Plane Fog Clearing
 

Heat,

There is a major -- but common -- misconception surfacing here, and I will explain it using the first three photos you have have provided. [Photos Four and Five are out-of-sequence and should appear as Three and Four. Photo Three should be the final Photo Five.]

Regardless of the Plane Angle used, the Right Elbow -- and therefore the Right Forearm -- are On Plane only during the Release Interval. Almost immediately in Start Up, the Right Elbow (and with it, the Right Forearm) leaves the Plane. This is true even when the Stroke is on a Zero Shift Elbow Plane. It is the Hands and the Sweet Spot that adhere to the selected Plane, not the Right Elbow. In other words, though the Right Elbow's Impact Location is the reference point that establishes the initial Plane Angle, the Right Elbow does not adhere to it.

In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane. This particular Plane Shift is catalogued as the Single Shift Variation (10-7-B).

So, the thought that "the Right Elbow is On Plane (with the Elbow Plane) throughout the Backstroke" is simply a flawed concept. The fact that the Right Elbow at The Top appears to be touching the original Elbow Plane is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Hands and the Sweet Spot have arrived at the Top on the Turned Shoulder Plane. Alternatively, had they arrived at The Top on the Elbow Plane -- the Elbow Plane coupled with the Zero Shift Variation -- then the Elbow necessarily would be below that Plane. Again, whether or not the Right Elbow appears to be on -- or off -- the original Elbow Plane means nothing. In other words...

There is an Elbow Plane for the Hands and Sweet Spot, but there is no "Elbow Plane" for the Right Elbow.

ok, then how does staying flat fit in with what yoda just said:

"In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane."

...ie i can't visualize how it can "gradually Shift" AND stay flat...abrublty shift maybe...i'm not saying one can't swing this way, just that i can't see how it can be on a "flat, inflexible, Inclined Plane"...but i'll incubate a bit more...

-hcw

Re: Elbow Plane Fog Clearing
 

Heat,

There is a major -- but common -- misconception surfacing here, and I will explain it using the first three photos you have have provided. [Photos Four and Five are out-of-sequence and should appear as Three and Four. Photo Three should be the final Photo Five.]

Regardless of the Plane Angle used, the Right Elbow -- and therefore the Right Forearm -- are On Plane only during the Release Interval. Almost immediately in Start Up, the Right Elbow (and with it, the Right Forearm) leaves the Plane. This is true even when the Stroke is on a Zero Shift Elbow Plane. It is the Hands and the Sweet Spot that adhere to the selected Plane, not the Right Elbow. In other words, though the Right Elbow's Impact Location is the reference point that establishes the initial Plane Angle, the Right Elbow does not adhere to it.

In the Backstroke demonstrated in the first three photos, a Plane Shift does indeed occur. The Club begins its journey (to the Top) on the Elbow Plane and then gradually Shifts to the Turned Shoulder Plane. This particular Plane Shift is catalogued as the Single Shift Variation (10-7-B).

So, the thought that "the Right Elbow is On Plane (with the Elbow Plane) throughout the Backstroke" is simply a flawed concept. The fact that the Right Elbow at The Top appears to be touching the original Elbow Plane is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the Hands and the Sweet Spot have arrived at the Top on the Turned Shoulder Plane. Alternatively, had they arrived at The Top on the Elbow Plane -- the Elbow Plane coupled with the Zero Shift Variation -- then the Elbow necessarily would be below that Plane. Again, whether or not the Right Elbow appears to be on -- or off -- the original Elbow Plane means nothing. In other words...

There is an Elbow Plane for the Hands and Sweet Spot, but there is no "Elbow Plane" for the Right Elbow. [/quote]
__________________________________________________ ___________

Yoda,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have been almost pulling my hair out trying to understand this afternoon, and I really don't have that much hair to spare. :wink:

One final question to completely clear the fog. Should there be a deliberate effort to get the hands and sweetspot back down to the elbow plane? I think understanding this moment of transition may be a real help for me. If there is no concerted effort to do this, can you elaborate on a feel or key?
Thanks again.

JN

I just had an idea, so I went and checked it with a mirror. At the top of my backswing, the slight hip bump causes my hands to drop, almost back on plane. This almost goes almost unnoticed in my swing, but for me at least clears up the idea of how it can feel like I'm going straight back to the ball from the top.

On the BS, when the shaft moves continuously through space from the elbow plane to the turned shoulder plane it traces a curved surface - a section of a truncated cone.

Gettin' Down With TGM
 

You could consciously return to the Elbow Plane, and if you do, you will have executed the Double Shift Variation (10-7-C). That is, from Elbow Plane to Turned Shoulder Plane and back again to Elbow Plane. This would mandate an Angled Line Delivery Path of the Hands (10-23-B or D).

However, the easiest thing to do would be to stay with the Single Shift (10-7-B) and simply execute a Straight Line Delivery Path (either 10-23-A or C) down the Turned Shoulder Plane. To do this:

1. Mentally construct a Straight Line (of Thrust) from the Right Forefinger #3 Pressure Point to the Ball (or alternative Aiming Point).

2. Load the Lag with your Start Down Pivot Motion without disturbing your Hands and their On Plane Location. In other words, Start Down with your Hip Action (Standard or Delayed per 10-15-A or C) but leave your Hands (and the Club) at The Top. Failure to make this move is where the great majority of potentially good golfers go bad.

3. Finally, take your Hands and their Loaded Lag Pressure directly down this Straight Line Delivery Path toward the Ball or Aiming Point (per 6-E-2) in preparation for the selected Release Trigger. In so doing, you automatically will be Tracing the Straight Line Baseline of the Turned Shoulder Plane.

Incidentally, there is an error in the Delivery Path Component Variation (10-23) of the Swinger's Drag Loading Basic Pattern (12-2-0). If you haven't already done so, correct 10-23-C to read Top Arc and Straight Line (and not simply Straight Line).