The Club is on an Inclined Angle and moves on that flat Angle (end over end - Gyroscope). The Plane. Can you Align the Plane? Yes. Trace the Baseline.




A simple drill to show how the Right Shoulder can move On-Plane and Downplane and support the #3 PP.

Address the ball. Add more Knee Bend. Move your Left Foot 6" away from the Plane Line. Start with short Strokes. You'll need to move closer to the Ball, but that shows how far away golfers normally stand, and always reaching for the ball with the right arm and shoulder. An On-Plane Right Forearm Wedge at Impact Fix will show you the same Ball Location as this drill.

My questions involves the location of the hands in those pics and what club is illustrated, a driver or a mid or short iron. When I play a driver forward I set the club with the face square and even if I move it back to just off my forward heel I still set the driver face square. Of course I never use adjusted address, I always have the club shaft and left arm aligned. Over the many years adjusted address always scrambled my brain so I gave up on it and start at "almost fix". I rarely ever fade the ball and often have a soft draw. At any rate I am glad you haven't brought up D plane. I just laugh at those discussions. I have worked with setting up, ball position, address location for years and somehow have been able to hit the ball mostly with a slight draw to where I want it without trackman knowledge. Understanding impact location, low point and plane lines haves been sufficient. So I guess Mike Hebron would saw I have "learned by playing" and others would say I have just "dug it out of the dirt". I will admit my alignments have often been corrected by golfgnome! So realizing I am left handed perhaps Daryl could create some of his wonderful drawings for a left hander illustrating starting from fix or adjusted address. Just kidding Daryl, I always look at your drawings with a mirror. Years ago I used to set up my video camera and record golf videos playing on the TV in a mirror and then play them back so they would be left handed.

This is history you're drawing here Daryl.
 

I believe this is keerect. (Assuming you rotated the whole machine in that last drawing, what Homer refers to as a "Rotated Plane Line "....it certainly appears that way to me as I look that third drawing. Not to be confused with a mere change in foot line or some such thing.)

This is an illustration of how a True Swinger would need to Rotate his Plane Line to square his Clubface for balls positioned forward of Low Point given that he hasnt Rotated his Grip. A Draw resulting as True Swinging assumes no compensational Hand Manipulation to offset the draw alignments, Divergence in Path and Face during the swing. CF alone will square the face during the swing (CF naturally creates Horizontal Hinging without any manipulation by the hands). These are the "passive hands" of golf literature taken to their logical extreme.....with some accompanying passive arms too I believe although Im still thinking the True Swinger could employ Extensor Action it being a non accelerating thrust of the right arm. Not sure .. life line .....anybody?

D, would you care to try the manipulated hands Swinger / Hitter version......which I believe Doctor Sandridge is perhaps referring to? The Rotated Grip version in other words .....where the face is squared to the target via "manipulation" as opposed to CF alone. (As I interpret Homer anyways).

How bout an iron played back in the stance with and without Grip Rotation.

As a side note the thing that really troubled me when I first read 7-2 was that there seemed to be two sets of physics, impact geometry laws .........one for true swinger , one for hitter. But I read it wrong of course. There is but one sets of laws, natural and universal and as I believe Ben Doyle says "either you're lawful or you're awful".

(Was I correct in thinking that's Ben Doyle's line David? I figure you'll know having had lessons with Misters Doyle , Sloan , Tomassello , McHatton, Blake etc.......thats the entire group from the "pioneer" first GSEM class with Homer and a couple of bright lights from Lynn's GSEM class...... as some of you guys who keep track of such things will notice).

Daryl, how 'bout a ball played back in the stance with a mid iron , Grip Rotation and Angled Hinge? Gonna have to draw the face staying square to the Arc or Inclined Plane.......

Im seeing a brave new world of TGM drawings. Where once there were just words, beautiful words but poorly suited for illustrating geometry.......we shall see illustrations and boldly go where no man .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjL8WXjlGI

Thanks D.

In your third drawing......Ball positioned back of low point, grip rotation (and given True Hitting we assume Angled Hinging) resulting in a Draw given enough Divergence.

This is where I go a little foggy ..........the implications of Angled Hinging to the ball response. Gotta think a bit on that one, do some research.....

Re your second drawing and the accompanying quote from 7-2. "Moving the ball back (hook alignment) ...." I believe that should be accompanied by a drawing showing Grip Rotation with the ball fore and aft of low point. Your drawing shows a "Slice Grip" with a probable Push ball response which could be compensated for with an adjustment to the Target Line , Plane Line rotation in other words. Which would give you a straight at the hole shot but higher and softer given the increased loft on the club and slightly steeper Angle of Attack maybe. Not sure , maybe in the future they'll invent a machine that can measure all these dynamics....


Somewhere in the book Homer mentions the influence of an increase in the Angle of Attack on ball flight....it goes higher. Cant find it right now.....again its kinda hidden in there somewhere. But suffice it to say that moving the ball back and rotating the grip has implications.

We're talking Machine Adjustments. The tools of the trade for the shot maker. Like Jacks towering long irons.......or Tigers low spinning wedge 1/2 wedge ....or Trevino or Bobby Lockes putting or or or. This is the dna of their business.

I thought "moving the Ball Back" is step 1 and Closing the Clubface by rotating the club in the grip was step 2.

Found it finally. The influence of an increase in the Angle of Attack on the ball flight.

From 2-N-0

"When the Ball is positioned at the Low Point, the two Plane Lines combine as one, but as the Ball is moved toward the Right Foot, these lines appear farther apart and the Angle of Approach becomes wider. Then, the steeper the Plane Angle (10-6), the steeper the Angle of Attack (2-N-1), the higher the trajectory and the deeper the Divot (7-6)."

Ok I see what you mean now. So those three drawings show grip rotation, I guess for a Hitter since you drew the Angle of Approach.

Just saying the series of drawings doesnt line up with the words. But I could be wrong again......happens all the time.

Oh man you're close to crackin 7-2 wide open Dude. But this thread was really about Angled and a Draw or something.......cant remember. So Im gonna shut up before I get called a thread jacker by Mike O or somebody equally ironic. Mike O being the Grand Masta Thread Jacka of all time....although Vegas has seen a lot money coming in on Inner City lately.

Daryl, this should be continued in its own thread maybe? Something like "whats up with 7-2 anyways?" Or "whats the deal with True Swinging? or Grip Rotation, Plane Line Rotation , what the.....?

draw with angle hinge
 

A very simple answer would be the go here,you guys have got yourselves all tied up in a "Drawing contest" and we have here "SENIOR MEMBERS" having a peeing contest as to knows more than the other and can draw better

Does anybody understand what is being said here "I doubt it".

I would say if someone saw the answers here,would they be able to determine what the opening question was without seeing the opening question first.........I DONT THINK SO....your "in depth" answers answer zilch.........I have written this reply without animosty...thank you:laughing9