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Old 06-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Bigwill Bigwill is offline
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Theories on Lag
I've been doing some experimentation on my own, trying to improve my swing. Here are some of the things that I've been kicking around; nothing new, but verification for me personally. Please tell me what you think:

1. Feel will kill you everytime, unless you can confirm the "real" that it corresponds with. Whatever you feel like you're doing, be sure that it corresponds with a dynamically effective swing, and nurture THOSE feels.

2. Lag pressure is monitored by the hands (except in PP4), and is produced by the pivot and gravity.

3. Trigger delay is a result of a properly performing pivot.

4. Video can lie, and static photos can lie even worse. It's about dynamics and alignments, not positions. Trying to look like a tour players swing sequence can cause major problems.

I came to all of these conclusions by "throwing" the club from the top. That's what it felt like. And I mean throwing the clubhead as soon as I could. I was very leery about doing this, because I'm terrified of throwing the club away. But that wasn't the case. I maintained the angles, but more importantly, I felt pressure on pp3 through impact. Also, in doing a drill designed to prevent casting, I discovered that I was able to maintain my angles, and I was making solid contact. The difference I felt was that my right shoulder was moving down more, and I felt more hip slide. I could feel pp3 solidly for the first time as well. Then, standing in front of a mirror, I purposely tried to throw the club away, wrist breakdown and all. The only way I could do this was to freeze my pivot. It was an interesting change in feel, but it allowed me to actually understand a lot of concepts that were only concepts to me, up until that point.
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Old 06-12-2007, 12:45 PM
SECGolf SECGolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigwill View Post
I've been doing some experimentation on my own, trying to improve my swing. Here are some of the things that I've been kicking around; nothing new, but verification for me personally. Please tell me what you think:

1. Feel will kill you everytime, unless you can confirm the "real" that it corresponds with. Whatever you feel like you're doing, be sure that it corresponds with a dynamically effective swing, and nurture THOSE feels.

2. Lag pressure is monitored by the hands (except in PP4), and is produced by the pivot and gravity.


I came to all of these conclusions by "throwing" the club from the top. That's what it felt like. And I mean throwing the clubhead as soon as I could. I was very leery about doing this, because I'm terrified of throwing the club away. But that wasn't the case. I maintained the angles, but more importantly, I felt pressure on pp3 through impact. Also, in doing a drill designed to prevent casting, I discovered that I was able to maintain my angles, and I was making solid contact. The difference I felt was that my right shoulder was moving down more, and I felt more hip slide. I could feel pp3 solidly for the first time as well. Then, standing in front of a mirror, I purposely tried to throw the club away, wrist breakdown and all. The only way I could do this was to freeze my pivot. It was an interesting change in feel, but it allowed me to actually understand a lot of concepts that were only concepts to me, up until that point.
1. I know what you mean, but I might replace "feel will kill you", with incorrect perception will kill you (brain convincing you of what is not reality). Feel is good and important (certainly clubhead feel) and you might say all feel is good (if you know what is happening in reality), because feel serves as feedback - the feel from correct movements AND feel from incorrect movements (learn from both).

2. What produces clubhead lag pressure (if that's what you meant?). To be speciific, I think you are skipping too many steps, in my opinion. See what produces Club head lag pressure, according to the definition of Clubhead lag pressure (in glossary). See the last paragraph of 7-22 (I believe, don't have book with) where he uses the wording "etc." when writing of the production of ch lag pressure (almost to say - ch lag pressure comes from all kinds of ch change, just feel the pressure produced by this change and maintain it - could be wrong here).

I'll suggest all the good things you go on to write about happened because you indeed focused on establishing, producing, and maintaining ch lag pressure, or clubhead feel through # 3. You didn't want to lose this feel, so you did what was necessary with all else to keep it. In general, what's a bad golf swing? A swing with throwaway. If you KNOW you have maintained ch lag pressure, you KNOW what has NOT happened? The Command Post did its job.

Last edited by SECGolf : 06-12-2007 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:48 PM
Bigwill Bigwill is offline
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Originally Posted by SECGolf View Post
1. I know what you mean, but I might replace "feel will kill you", with incorrect perception will kill you (brain convincing you of what is not reality). Feel is good and important (certainly clubhead feel) and you might say all feel is good (if you know what is happening in reality), because feel serves as feedback - the feel from correct movements AND feel from incorrect movements (learn from both).


I agree; that's pretty much what I was getting at. Thanks for making it bit more clear.

2. What produces clubhead lag pressure (if that's what you meant?). To be speciific, I think you are skipping too many steps, in my opinion. See what produces Club head lag pressure, according to the definition of Clubhead lag pressure (in glossary). See the last paragraph of 7-22 (I believe, don't have book with) where he uses the wording "etc." when writing of the production of ch lag pressure (almost to say - ch lag pressure comes from all kinds of ch change, just feel the pressure produced by this change and maintain it - could be wrong here).

What I wrote was simplistic perception; you may be right about skipping steps. Could you elaborate (I don't have a book presently)?


I'll suggest all the good things you go on to write about happened because you indeed focused on establishing, producing, and maintaining ch lag pressure, or clubhead feel through # 3. You didn't want to lose this feel, so you did what was necessary with all else to keep it. In general, what's a bad golf swing? A swing with throwaway. If you KNOW you have maintained ch lag pressure, you KNOW what has NOT happened? The Command Post did its job.

I believe that is exactly what was going on. Thanks for the response, BTW.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:44 PM
mb6606 mb6606 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bigwill View Post
2. Lag pressure is monitored by the hands (except in PP4), and is produced by the pivot and gravity.
My theory is lag pressure is caused by the, "down" in the, "forward, down and out."
Most people have the back, up and in, the forward and out - but not the down.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:21 PM
lagster lagster is offline
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
My theory is lag pressure is caused by the, "down" in the, "forward, down and out."
Most people have the back, up and in, the forward and out - but not the down.
.................................................. .......................

I saw a video done by Paul Hart that explains very well what you are talking about.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:31 PM
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nuke99 nuke99 is offline
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There is alot of truth in this

Mechanics produces, Feel reproduces.



Also, like accumulators, the pressure points can be used in different combinations. The PP4 would not be felt unless Accumulator 4 is properly utilized.
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Last edited by nuke99 : 06-13-2007 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mb6606 View Post
My theory is lag pressure is caused by the, "down" in the, "forward, down and out."
Most people have the back, up and in, the forward and out - but not the down.
Impact to Low Point is 3-D; Down, Out and Forward. The Forward Dimension is taken care of by the center of the motion (Left Shoulder is the center of the Clubhead Arc, unless replace by the Right Elbow). Focusing on Down and Out on Plane to Low Point is a must. However, "most" swings lack the Outward Dimension during the Impact Interval. Conventional instruction has drilled home to swing from inside, to along, to inside. That only works if, the "along" is at Low Point, generally it isn't and neither is the Outward.
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by drewitgolf View Post
Conventional instruction has drilled home to swing from inside, to along, to inside. That only works if, the "along" is at Low Point, generally it isn't and neither is the Outward.
Another bug or maybe even virus of conventional programming IDENTIFIED and taken care of. NICE!
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Old 06-14-2007, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by drewitgolf View Post
Impact to Low Point is 3-D; Down, Out and Forward. The Forward Dimension is taken care of by the center of the motion (Left Shoulder is the center of the Clubhead Arc, unless replace by the Right Elbow). Focusing on Down and Out on Plane to Low Point is a must. However, "most" swings lack the Outward Dimension during the Impact Interval. Conventional instruction has drilled home to swing from inside, to along, to inside. That only works if, the "along" is at Low Point, generally it isn't and neither is the Outward.
kerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrPOW!!! In the cheap seats.

Isn't it interesting that the Circle and the Plane are TWO dimensional but IMPACT is THREE dimensional???

If you add a third dimension to the plane you're busted . . . if you don't have ENOUGH of one of the critical dimensions (OUT and DOWN) you're busted.
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Old 06-15-2007, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket View Post
kerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrPOW!!! In the cheap seats.

Isn't it interesting that the Circle and the Plane are TWO dimensional but IMPACT is THREE dimensional???

If you add a third dimension to the plane you're busted . . . if you don't have ENOUGH of one of the critical dimensions (OUT and DOWN) you're busted.
You mean that the ball position is merely the point where the Circle and the Plane line meet and that this must be passed through and not just swung at in order to achieve the desired result?

Wow! This stuff is good.
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